Tackling combustible dust safety with Tim Heneks

Transcript has been edited for clarity.

Steven Kilger - 00:00

Hello! My name is Steven Kilger, I’m the Managing Editor for Feed & Grain Magazine and the host of the Feed Grain Podcast. Thank you so much for joining me today as we dive deep into the issues affecting the Feed Manufacturing, Grain Handling, and allied industries.

Today’s episode is brought to you by The BinWhip from Pneumat Systems. The powerful Dual Impact BinWhip removes the toughest buildup and blockages in industrial storage silos – without hazardous silo entry. Learn more today at binwhip.com.

Today I’m talking to Tim Heneks, director of Engineering Services at Dustcon Solutions. It’s a great show, we talk about the importance of dust control and maintaining a safe work environment, how dust hazard analysis works, and how to do cost-effective upgrades to your dust control practices.

I hope you enjoy the interview, if you want to help out with the podcast and are listening to this in a podcasting app, please rate us and subscribe! If you’re listening online sign up for the Feed & Grain Newsletter Industry Watch to see when new podcasts drop and stay up to date with all the news from around the industry.

Now onto the show.

Tim Heneks - 01:05

Yeah, thanks so much for having me, Steven, I'm glad to be here.

Kilger - 01:09

Yeah, me too. We talked a little bit before we recorded about how interesting and important this topic is, especially combustible dust safety, because when a tragedy does happen, the guy must then go right up and try to figure out what happened It is something that is constantly brought to my attention. So, it's important that we kind of bring it to everyone's attention.

Heneks - 01:28

Yeah. I can imagine from that perspective.

Kilger - 01:31

Yeah. It's, it's weird. It's a weird place to be, but for anyone out there who doesn't know you, can you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your background and what you do in combustible dust safety?

Heneks - 01:44

Yeah, certainly. So for those of the listeners who don't know me, my name is Timothy Heneks. I'm the director of engineering here at Dustcon Solutions. Based out of Florida. I am a chemical engineer who started my career working in the plant doing improvement projects and making sure that the plant ran smoothly.

And then through an interesting path, I found my way into combustible dust safety where I got into the design and sales of, and now, I'm running an engineering consulting firm in which we are focused on combustible dust safety. So, I gained an enormous amount of experience in the grain and food industries.

I am a professional engineer licensed in, I think, what, a dozen states and counting. I am a member of the NFPA 61 technical committee, or at least the technical committee responsible for NFPA 61 and what we expect to soon be the agricultural portion of NFPA 660. Wow, I mean those are quite a list of credentials. Yeah, no, it certainly gives me a unique perspective from which to tackle the combustible dust problem. I, you know, very niche. It's a little difficult to explain at dinner parties what I do for a living, but I do really like it.

Kilger - 03:07

Well, at least it sounds impressive. I'm just a journalist. We have no credentials for anything. We have a bachelor's degree.

Heneks - 03:13

I only have a bachelor's degree too, but to me, I like to make sure the audience knows that I'm not just a pretty face.

Kilger - 03:21

I know, especially on something we don't even have you on camera for. As I said, dust control, dust is a serious part of what we do in the grain handling feed manufacturing industries. So, it's always an important topic, especially this time of year when people might be running their stuff a little more, might be moving things through their facilities, questionable grain quality, all these other stuff. So, it's always a really good time to focus on stuff like this.

Can you talk a little bit about some misconceptions people in our industry might have about the cost of these safety measures for dust control for combustible dust why it's something that they should focus on and why it might not be quite as intimidating?

Heneks - 04:02

Yeah, I really like that question. I want to start by saying that each of our clients and every situation is going to be different and everybody brings a unique perspective. All the listeners are going to have a different starting point on this. You know whether it's a difference in the type of systems and equipment that they're working with, the type of materials that they're handling, or even something as basic as their level of knowledge, expertise, or level of priority they're putting on combustible dust safety.

There are going to be some listeners listening to this who have maybe never really spent a lot of time and effort thinking about combustible dust, and there are going to be others who have been a top priority for them for a while. But ultimately, I think that what you described in your question, there is some intimidation, especially with the perceived cost of what I'm going to call prescriptive measures. Those things are defined clearly by the NFPA standards that govern combustible dust.

Many of our listeners might not realize that there's a little bit of a wider variety of options that they can use to address and tackle combustible dust concerns that don't always require the installation of these fancy, complex, expensive explosion protection systems.

Kilger - 05:26

Yeah. And especially if you're in an older mill and you're kind of used to dust, you look around and there's always been dust. It can kind of start to just fade into the back of your mind until obviously there's some kind of incident that you need to address.

Heneks - 05:42

Sure. And I, you know, to piggyback on that, I think one of the things that we often hear is, well, it's a food product. It's safe. Why would this be hazardous? And to some sense, that's right. We're not talking about a hazardous chemical that's going to hurt you if you touch it to your skin, but we consume food for energy. There's a lot of core value in there that can, in the right conditions, exert that energy through combustion, which has dire consequences for facilities if they're not well managed.

Kilger - 06:18

Exactly. Well, to help the people out, can you provide a few examples of some cost-effective safety measures that Maybe people aren't thinking of when they first think about dust management?

Heneks - 06:28

Yeah, absolutely. I'm going to keep this brief because I could go on for days, but you know, first I want to establish that there are really two kinds of general sides to safety measures when it comes to these combustible dust issues. And that's administrative controls versus engineering controls, right?

So administrative controls could be something as simple as ensuring that you've got the right Hazard communication, training, procedures, housekeeping, culture, and preventative maintenance. We're talking about things that are at a human level and if it's known and understood that it's a priority to fix leaks when they happen clean up dust at the end of the shift or ensure that we're following things like hot work permitting practices.

Those can be effective measures for preventing incidents from a combustible dust standpoint that don't take a lot of money. They do take kind of time and emotional and intellectual investment, not just from the leaders, but also from the entire organization.

But those are things that I really stress because that sets the tone, right? Beyond that, on the engineering side, this is where I think most of the perceived cost is going to come from. And a good example I like to use in terms of how to a cost-effective safety measure. It is through designing your systems in such a way that you're minimizing the amount of dust that's going to escape and create hazardous locations that require rated electrical, or the use of certain types of equipment that might not require those explosion protection devices that can be quite costly, or the use of explosion protection devices that are less complex, more passive, Lower cost to both install and maintain long term.

Kilger - 08:32

And it is a remarkable difference even with how much equipment technology has evolved over the last 10-15 years that I've been in the industry and how much tighter the seals are, how much less dust is produced in just the daily running of equipment than you do in a facility that's even 10, 15 years old at this point.

Heneks  - 08:52

And just to give a quick example, this kind of blends the idea of administrative and engineering controls, but we had a client at a grain facility in Washington state a year or two back that was essentially going through a startup and they found themselves in a little bit of an issue with the local building code officials.

Because they had a motor that was powering the fan on a dust collector located on the roof of a building, but it was in what the engineers that designed it deemed to be a classified location, right? And so, what ended up happening was that the inspector said, well, that motor doesn't meet the classification rating that you guys have established for this area.

You have got to replace it. Anybody who knows these things knows that no simple tasks, especially once you're almost ready for commissioning, and ultimately, we were able to solve the problem by simply looking at whether that was an appropriate classification for that location, writing a letter to the code official saying this was our technical opinion and getting them to buy in and agree.

And suddenly, what would have been maybe a hundred-thousand-dollar investment on the part of the plant turned out to be negligible. It took a couple of weeks’ worth of discussions a letter and a stamp and boom, we're done.

Kilger  - 10:08

I mean regulators and people inspecting are usually willing to adjust they don't know the industry most of them are willing to admit that and willing to make changes if you go about things correctly so that's a really nice little hopeful story that you can just talk to your regulator

Heneks  - 10:27

and you can I've always said that if I can just talk to the local code official, they typically are willing to listen to somebody who knows more than them about combustible dust to say, oh, now that you've explained it in this way, I understand that the hazard is not as dire as I thought it was.

But you need to be able to get that conversation, that dialogue going, and you also need to have somebody who understands the hazard and who's willing to have that conversation.

What I've found is most engineers will, when confronted with the idea of an unknown or something they're unsure about, default to the most conservative option. The one that's safest, the one that's not going to It's going to be perceived safest, I should say, and one that probably doesn't put their liability or their license in jeopardy.

Kilger - 11:21

Well, especially because you must have phone calls with an official and stuff. That doesn't sound fun. I might make the $100,000 repair too, just to avoid that.

Heneks - 11:30

If you say so. That's a choice for you.

Kilger - 11:32

Well, so DustCon's website, I was perusing it and you have these things called dust test, and dust hazard analysis services that you guys provide. Can you tell me a little bit more about them and what happens during one of those?

Heneks - 11:46

Absolutely. Right off the bat, we sometimes get confused by our clients about what a dust hazard analysis is and think that it's dust testing and vice versa. You think of the term dust hazard analysis, and it sounds like it would be Something done in a laboratory by a scientist, but ultimately a dust hazard analysis is a hazard assessment. You're testing where hazards are present related to combustible dust in the facility, what existing safeguards you have, and then what gaps might exist between your current safeguards and what's needed to satisfy safety and compliance requirements.

So, this is something that's relatively new. The DHA, the term dust hazard analysis was coined as part of the NFPA 652 rollout back in the mid-2010s. And since then, it's been incorporated into the other combustible dust standards.

NFPA 61 applies to this industry, and it is a retroactive requirement. The dust has an analysis for all facilities that are handling combustible dust to do both existing and new facilities, but it's not a scary endeavor. For our part, working with our clients, we think of the DHA as the path to a clear understanding of what's needed to successfully manage combustible dust hazards.

It may be the case that we get into a facility and they're already doing all the right things and there's not much there for them to improve on. That would be the exception rather than the rule. Most of the time though, it creates a roadmap for, hey, here are the things that need to be implemented. Do these things, and get yourself into a much better situation from a safety and compliance standpoint.

Contrast that to, say, dust testing in which we really are dealing with scientists in a laboratory taking a five-gallon pail of dust that's been generated from, say, a rain cleaning process and feeding that dust into laboratory equipment that will establish whether that material is a fire or explosion hazard and to what extent.

A lot of the types of values that you hear talked about for combustible dust, things like KST or minimum ignition energy or the temperature it takes to ignite, these are all established through ASTM protocols in which our laboratory would take the sample, do the test method, and output those results. And those would then become inputs to the dust hazard analysis. Or they might become the basis of safety for your explosion protection systems.

Kilger - 14:33

Well, they're really fascinating. I mean because they came up with this idea of taking responsibility for your plant. Like really getting into the nuts and bolts of it and figuring out How much dust are we producing? How dangerous is that dust? And then from there, what exactly do we have to do to make sure that everyone goes home safe at the end of the day?

Which is really what, I mean, all of this is about. It's this regulatory stuff behind it, obviously, and there are laws you must follow and all those things. But in my mind, it always comes down to the important part of not having to have a bad conversation with an employee's family, and seems like their services to that same goal.

Heneks - 15:13

Absolutely. I really take to heart the idea that the work that we do is making workplaces safer, helping employees, staff, contractors, you know, come home safely at the end of each day. To be honest with you, combustible dust safety typically is thought of sometimes in a regulatory perspective.

But I really like to think about it more from the safety perspective. Like, hey, how can we make sure that we're providing an environment that is free from these hazards that even if somebody is not killed if you've ever seen the injuries from somebody who's been involved in a burn situation. These are life-altering injuries that really give you pause to think, hey, could this have been avoided? And so, I personally take a lot of pride in being able to be a part of this goal.

And I really like to impress upon clients that that's really what we're after. And you know, there's more to it too. I mean, you know, there's also a, you know, a business continuity side of this, which if you have a grain dryer fire, And suddenly, it's inoperable for a few weeks. Even if nobody's hurt, that could be a major issue from a business perspective in which you've now lost production because of something that was unplanned and avoidable. Absolutely.

Kilger - 16:41

It's an avoidable problem. I'm just a few miles from the Didion milling explosion that happened, the dust explosion that happened a few years ago. And so, I heard a lot about the fallout of it just from local reporting and stuff about that. And you're like, no, this changes lives. Five, or six years later now, they're still dealing with the fallout from that one incident. And it's not great.

So, all these things are important, especially getting in and making sure everything is fixed and good beforehand. Also, who wants to work in a dusty environment? Nobody, no employee that I've ever talked to says, I love all the dust that's lying around.

Heneks - 17:17

Well, Steve, I think a lot of the listeners would probably resonate with that comment. We have heard a lot recently from our clients about how hard it is to get and keep labor in this kind of job because of that exact sentiment. And if making it a safer, more pleasant work environment is going to help solve that problem. You might be killing two birds with one stone.

Kilger - 17:41

Exactly. At least make it more pleasant for the employees you have there.

But speaking of the employees you have there and all of this, I know I got a little sidetracked there, but how can regular maintenance be a cost-effective way to stay compliant with this? Because a lot of it seems like it's that management side, that administrative side, that drilling in.

Heneks - 18:01

Yeah, I think the best way to answer this is with an example. A few years back, we were contacted by a client that had an OSHA citation and it included several different things, but the list included housekeeping and medical classification. The reason for this is that they walked into an area that was thought by the client to be unclassified, rightfully so, if things were in their normal condition, but they probably hadn't been for about six months.

They had some severe leaks within the dust system that made a real mess of the area. And so, what ended up happening was that they could not keep up with housekeeping if they tried. And for one reason or another, it hadn't been addressed. So when OSHA came through, they took a sample, they tested it, they found that it was explosible.

Heneks - 18:51

And they said, oh, well, you've got a quarter or a half-inch thick layer of this dust all over the area. On top of this high-voltage electrical enclosure, which is not rated for a Class 2 environment, we have found you to not be in compliance, therefore here's your citation. And when we got involved, we were able to effectively establish that, hey, it was the dust control, the maintenance, and the housekeeping that was the issue and not the electrical side of it, which helped to consolidate and reduce some of the fines from the citations.

This is by no means the outcome of every one of these instances that we get involved with, but it kind of goes to show that if there had been a little bit more attention paid and resources allocated towards preventing that dust leak in the first place, all of a sudden the ocean inspector may have walked through that room and not noticed it at all, not had anything to say, and you may have avoided that citation altogether.

So, I don't know if that's necessarily the perfect kind of all-encompassing answer, but it's a really good example of how, hey look, dust control is really hard if you're not doing a good job of keeping the things that are supposed to be in the closed system in the closed system.

Kilger - 20:09

Definitely. It also shows how valuable it is to have a team like yours on your side when these Inspections do happen because I know a lot of people would probably just grumble pay the fine and then move on but to have someone on your side to fight back a little bit sounds like a real big selling point.

Heneks - 20:29

I appreciate the kind words Steven. We try very hard to make sure that we're ensuring that our clients are not just kind of Rolling over if they are indeed in the right. I said previously the combustible dust is a little bit niche. It's not something that most generalists are going to be experts on, but what we believe is that if we can provide enough training and kind of coaching, we can at least ensure that there's an understanding from our client's perspective. Hey, here are the basics.

We know that we're in the right for X, Y, and Z reasons. And if we ever have questions, they have somebody to call about it. Because at the end of the day, nobody can be an expert at everything.

And to have the right resources at your disposal, that's what I think is most important.

Kilger - 21:13

Yeah. I mean, that's a good point. And part of being a good manager or a good facility owner or whatever your position is, is knowing what you're not good at. This is the key to a good running facility. But for those out there who have now had the light bulb go out and want to know more, where can our listeners learn more about cost-effective saving strategies and maybe a little bit more about you and your company?

Heneks - 21:40

Well, first we've got a webinar coming up. We're partnering with Feed & Grain here. In the next month or so, not sure when this episode is going to drop as compared to when the webinar will be, but in mid-September, we're going to have a live webinar on this topic. I promise I will get into more examples with pictures, and we'll go into a couple of case studies that I think will really enhance the knowledge of anybody interested in the topic.

Additionally, if you visit our website www.duskonsolutions.com, might even be easier just to pop Dustcon Solutions into your Google search. You can find we've got several kinds of resources and videos that can really help anybody who's interested in this. We do try to focus on making sure that our clients aren't, you know, just going with The most expensive options out there, you know, we try to advocate to ensure that we're pushing safety from a practical point of view.

Kilger - 22:41

That's very nice to know because a lot of places do push the most expensive option.

Heneks - 22:46

Hell yeah. I mean, you know, as a consultant, our interest lies with our clients, not necessarily in selling equipment, right? We're not here to sell equipment or anything of that nature.

I want to also mention. Additionally, there are industry trade groups such as Jeeps or NGFA that have wonderful resources on safety beyond just combustible dust that has additional expertise far beyond what I have personally that can kind of help do that.

I know that some of those conferences have safety Presentations on these topics that you can listen to, but they also have written resources that you can download and use and start to implement within your facilities.

Kilger - 23:26

Yeah, Harvest Grain Safety Week, when we're recording this, it won't be by the time this goes out, but to date ourselves. But yeah, all those resources, at least on the NGFA site, are all free too, so they're great resources for people to go to. Also, really excited about the webinar. I'm looking forward to it.

I'm going to be logged on.

It's a great opportunity for people to get their questions answered and get kind of more in-depth because despite people shouting at their listening or computer device while listening to this, I guess they're not going to get any questions answered here, but they can at the webinar.

Heneks - 23:58

If the listeners have any questions that they want to pose or need additional information, my contact information is not that hard to find. I'm sure that whether it's on our website or maybe it's in the podcast show notes or something like that, I'm sure that our listeners can find a way to get a hold of me if they do have a nit to pick about what I've said about the topic.

Kilger - 24:18

That sounds good. And we will have links to both your website and of course the webinar registration page and all that right in the show notes. So if you're interested, you'll be able to go down there and click. Tim, thank you so much for joining me today. I really appreciate it.

Heneks - 24:32

Right. Thanks so much, Steven. It was, it was a pleasure, really.

Kilger - 24:35

Excellent. We'll have to have you on again soon. And for everyone listening out there, stay safe.